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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:26 pm 
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Well, seeing there are two ships of that class, why not build one giant ship?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:28 pm 
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There's only one Andraste, and ONE was all the Quorum was willing to pay for! Go here to read more about her.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Well, the second was Black buget project


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:32 pm 
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Oh, really? I doubt the Colonial's Black Ops budget could handle an Andraste without messing with so many other programs as to cause an investigation into supposedly wasted funds...

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:38 pm 
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Gus wrote:
Well, the second was Black buget project
I don't know. If you were to build a ship of that size in secret by siphoning funds from various programs here and there without anyone finding out, it would take at least a decade, maybe more, just to acquire the necessary funds. Then you need to find somewhere large enough to house that monster of a ship. Then you need to aquire the parts and labour to actually start building the ship and that could take several more years. In my opinion, such a vessel would be an unnecessary waste of time, manpower, materials, and taxpayer dollars. You could essentially construct two smaller ships with the materials needed for one of those behemoths. And in my books, two is always better than one. I'm no expert, but that's just my thinking. I don't mean to come off as rude, but as I said before, this is just my thinking.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:21 pm 
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You could construct more than just two ships. Think of how much additional cost goes into all the cloak and dagger needed to take that siphoned funds and turn them into workers, a star dock, materials, weapons, trained and utterly, impeccably trustworthy crewmembers, LOTS of them too!

By the time it was all said and done, you could make a handful of standard line Battlestars such as something more modern and on the scale of Galactica, or an even larger number of light Battlestars such as Valkyrie. You could make a handful of stealth Battlestars, such as CanisD's excellent design. You could even make a pair of highly specialized Mercury sized heavy Battlestars, with enhanced sensors, command, and DRADIS reduction.

What you couldn't do was make basically any of these in true secrecy. Black book or not, you couldn't hope to produce this sort of outlay and NOT have it come to someone's attention eventually.

I also wouldn't want to be the poor commander/admiral stuck in command of this thing when The Fall occurs. In a more conventional battle against the Cylons, it would certainly serve a point to one degree or another, but in the post Fall period when shipyards, resupply, replacements Vipers, and new personnel are scant, this thing would be so special in nature, you couldn't actually risk it on real combat! It would be impossible to replace lost systems, nearly impossible to retrain the specialists to man them, and the sheer elitness such a ship would require would suffer dramatically if it was damaged and took any significant degree of casualties. It would basically "special" itself out of a job!

Granted, if it managed to survive with a sizable Fleet, one that could both protect it and project power all at once...then it might serve a real purpose. And it would certainly be a good way to train replacement crew, hold a very skilled admiralty staff, AND provide a well defended seat for any replacement or interim government, that's for sure!

But by itself? Not a snowballs chance in hell.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:24 pm 
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The ship disapeared before the fall, and also Adar knew about its construction and wanted it to be his little secret for the Cylons when they came back.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:35 pm 
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gryphon wrote:
You could construct more than just two ships. Think of how much additional cost goes into all the cloak and dagger needed to take that siphoned funds and turn them into workers, a star dock, materials, weapons, trained and utterly, impeccably trustworthy crewmembers, LOTS of them too!

By the time it was all said and done, you could make a handful of standard line Battlestars such as something more modern and on the scale of Galactica, or an even larger number of light Battlestars such as Valkyrie. You could make a handful of stealth Battlestars, such as CanisD's excellent design. You could even make a pair of highly specialized Mercury sized heavy Battlestars, with enhanced sensors, command, and DRADIS reduction.

What you couldn't do was make basically any of these in true secrecy. Black book or not, you couldn't hope to produce this sort of outlay and NOT have it come to someone's attention eventually.
True, you could build several ships with the funding and materials. Also true that someone will eventually start asking questions. Although you might be able to keep it a secret during construction. Or at least mostly secret.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:47 pm 
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gryphon wrote:
I also wouldn't want to be the poor commander/admiral stuck in command of this thing when The Fall occurs. In a more conventional battle against the Cylons, it would certainly serve a point to one degree or another, but in the post Fall period when shipyards, resupply, replacements Vipers, and new personnel are scant, this thing would be so special in nature, you couldn't actually risk it on real combat! It would be impossible to replace lost systems, nearly impossible to retrain the specialists to man them, and the sheer elitness such a ship would require would suffer dramatically if it was damaged and took any significant degree of casualties. It would basically "special" itself out of a job!
This is exactly why I don't "subscribe" to the whole uber massive, manpower intensive, weapons laden monstrosities that some people seem to like. I'm just going to put it bluntly, I don't find them to be particularly attractive to look at and aside from being slow, cumbersome and serving as an oversized target, not very useful in my opinion. **I'm not trying to degrade anybody's work. I'm sure they put a lot of effort into these drawings, so I apologize in advance if I've offended anyone.**

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:57 pm 
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Wolfman wrote:
Give the stink the Quorum of the Twelve raised over the ANDRASTE, I don't think they'd cough up the dough needed to fund that ship.


Agreed. And this isn't putting all your eggs in one basket, it's also adding in the chicken coop as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:16 pm 
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KombatWombat wrote:
gryphon wrote:
I also wouldn't want to be the poor commander/admiral stuck in command of this thing when The Fall occurs. In a more conventional battle against the Cylons, it would certainly serve a point to one degree or another, but in the post Fall period when shipyards, resupply, replacements Vipers, and new personnel are scant, this thing would be so special in nature, you couldn't actually risk it on real combat! It would be impossible to replace lost systems, nearly impossible to retrain the specialists to man them, and the sheer elitness such a ship would require would suffer dramatically if it was damaged and took any significant degree of casualties. It would basically "special" itself out of a job!
This is exactly why I don't "subscribe" to the whole uber massive, manpower intensive, weapons laden monstrosities that some people seem to like. I'm just going to put it bluntly, I don't find them to be particularly attractive to look at and aside from being slow, cumbersome and serving as an oversized target, not very useful in my opinion. **I'm not trying to degrade anybody's work. I'm sure they put a lot of effort into these drawings, so I apologize in advance if I've offended anyone.**


IMO, when it comes to *combatants*, Hecate (as well as the Nova/Prometheus class) is the upper limit in size. Much past that and you start getting into control issues (how the hell do 2000 fighters do a combat landing???) and it becomes a target that takes on the same status as Bismark had with the British; it must be destroyed at any cost. And destroying something that large, slow, and ungainly would be so hideously simple, too. If I were the Cylons, all I would need to do is have my squadron of Raiders jump into it. That would at best destroy it and at worst cripple it, and all my "dead" Raiders would download into new bodies.

As for the "built in secret" from the Government, I can't get behind that one bit. It would imply a very rogue officer corps who has zero respect for civilian control. Then you look at the size, and calculate the materials that are required, most of them custom built specific for this ship (where are you going to find engines that meet the spec, for example).

It's your world, so please take my comments as friendly constructive criticism.

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Click the link to read Lady Hecate off line in PDF, .epub, or Kindle formats: http://www.bsg94.org/downloads/index.html
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:52 pm 
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kfeltenberger wrote:
KombatWombat wrote:
gryphon wrote:
I also wouldn't want to be the poor commander/admiral stuck in command of this thing when The Fall occurs. In a more conventional battle against the Cylons, it would certainly serve a point to one degree or another, but in the post Fall period when shipyards, resupply, replacements Vipers, and new personnel are scant, this thing would be so special in nature, you couldn't actually risk it on real combat! It would be impossible to replace lost systems, nearly impossible to retrain the specialists to man them, and the sheer elitness such a ship would require would suffer dramatically if it was damaged and took any significant degree of casualties. It would basically "special" itself out of a job!
This is exactly why I don't "subscribe" to the whole uber massive, manpower intensive, weapons laden monstrosities that some people seem to like. I'm just going to put it bluntly, I don't find them to be particularly attractive to look at and aside from being slow, cumbersome and serving as an oversized target, not very useful in my opinion. **I'm not trying to degrade anybody's work. I'm sure they put a lot of effort into these drawings, so I apologize in advance if I've offended anyone.**


IMO, when it comes to *combatants*, Hecate (as well as the Nova/Prometheus class) is the upper limit in size. Much past that and you start getting into control issues (how the hell do 2000 fighters do a combat landing???) and it becomes a target that takes on the same status as Bismark had with the British; it must be destroyed at any cost. And destroying something that large, slow, and ungainly would be so hideously simple, too. If I were the Cylons, all I would need to do is have my squadron of Raiders jump into it. That would at best destroy it and at worst cripple it, and all my "dead" Raiders would download into new bodies.
Agreed. The Hecate and Nova types are the absolute limit in size that I would go considering bigger isn't always better. Both The Hecate and Nova/Prometheus are around 2500-3000 meters. As far as I'm concerned, that is more than enough for most purposes.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:58 pm 
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:cry:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Gus wrote:
:cry:
Sorry man. I just think more along the lines of practicality than anything else. The uber massive battlestars just aren't my thing.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:19 am 
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Honestly, I like how the Nova looks, but the sheer size of it is pushing the envelope too. Even the Mercury class looked overly massive, that's why i treat the Mercs and any derivatives as both Heavy Battlestars and the basic top end ships of the line, to be feared above all else.

Nova, Prometheus, and Hecate are so large, you have to look at them as close to one off units in a post Fall setting. Its entirely unlikely that more than one of them could have survived, since they would, as a type, draw the Cylons like flies to honey. Promy gets a pass because she was gone. Nova because she is a prototype that was apparently thought to be non-functional. Hecate's reason escape me for the moment, I still need to go back and read the entire story again...especially since i managed to confuse a few fanfics recently, and am still trying to sort that all out in my rather addled brain pan!

Even so, in any given setting, the number of ships larger than a Mercury class would be less than a handful, and the number of ships of a size with the Mercs would be a double handful at best. Most survivors would be concentrated in the lighter ranges, since they would be both detachable for patrol duties, and unimportant enough to get hammered in the opening stages of the Cylon Pumpkin Smashing Festival of the Fall. The big boys are generally too new NOT to have the CNP, and too powerful to be left alone. Sheer unmitigated luck is the only reason they would survive. (The Cylons SHOULD have sent a group to shadow Prometheus, especially if the was going in the direction of the other branches of humanity, and should have been prepared to eliminate her and most of her escorts when the Fall kicked off. Not doing such is a grave tactical error on their parts really. She has too much combat potential in her single hull to be ignored honestly, all ships of Mercury size or above do. Not going after her honestly sounds exactly like something that Cavil/#1 would pull really...)


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