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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:46 am 
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Or alternatively, what makes BSG BSG.

So, since this semester's course load is more compressed chaos rather than full term pressure, I've started working on some parts of my universe again. And honestly, to make it the story I want, its gotten pretty far away from canon BSG. However, I am working in a different time frame, and the parts that matter most haven't been explored in canon BSG, only hinted at semi-officially.

I guess my question is this, where would you draw the line that something is no longer based on Battlestar Galactica and instead say its just a whole new thing with some stuff stolen from BSG?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:06 am 
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Change the names, rub off the serial numbers, sell it again?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:15 pm 
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Well turbo as far as I’m concerned the whole point of this forum is for those that wish to express themselves is to do just that - so those that give a flying frack will listen and watch and the rest don!t can frCk off and whine on another forum So keep up the good work my friend

As for your actual question - canon - it’s like Beauty - it’s in the eye of the beholder - in other words make you own canon, once it’s it writing as far as I’m concerned it’s canon if it’s from your heart f—ck what anyone else says


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:40 pm 
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TurboCoupeTurbo wrote:
Or alternatively, what makes BSG BSG.

So, since this semester's course load is more compressed chaos rather than full term pressure, I've started working on some parts of my universe again. And honestly, to make it the story I want, its gotten pretty far away from canon BSG. However, I am working in a different time frame, and the parts that matter most haven't been explored in canon BSG, only hinted at semi-officially.

I guess my question is this, where would you draw the line that something is no longer based on Battlestar Galactica and instead say its just a whole new thing with some stuff stolen from BSG?


I wanted to quote this because I believe it a crucial question that needs to be asked and answered, and one that I think has a nuanced answer.

What is BSG? At its core, it is a character driven story that revolves around several central questions and themes. What is faith? Are the gods, or God, real? Does mankind take responsibility for the actions it takes? Is creating "life", for what is essentially slavery, ethical or moral? Does technology without morality or consequences (i.e. Caprica and the V-World scenes that we saw) serve the greater good as a way to act on urges that would otherwise be punished in the real world? And so on.

Technology was always there to support the story, not be the story. It was just advanced enough to allow the writers to move the story forward, but it was never a panacea or Swiss Army Knife fix-it; even when Baltar used Cylon blood to "cure" Roslin, it only drove the cancer into remission for three years or so.

The characters were human. They were people that you could expect to meet during your life and had flaws to go along with their virtues. They weren't teenage supermen, they weren't perfect, and while they strove for the moral high ground, they all had their regrets and secrets.

So, if you keep these things in mind, while wrapping it in the chrome that we've seen, I think it will be "BSG". Now, if you start using terms that weren't in the show (yahrens for years in RDM's BSG, or vice versa in Larsen's, for example), or introduce technobabble (the Star Trek syndrome), or introduce technology that will wildly change things (jump drive now takes a week from start to finish as in Traveller, shields, or widespread use of energy weapons, for example), then I think you're moving away and rather than being "BSG" it will be something that is "inspired by BSG".

IMO, of course.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:41 pm 
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Thanks everyone that replied, especially Kurt for that very detailed response. You sorta started to hit on the reasons I'm having doubts my stuff is BSG enough.

One thing about the RDM version of BSG that I could never get behind were the human model Cylons. I feel that they represent a contradiction in how the Cylons are portrayed in the show verses everything the show tries to tell the viewer about the Cylons.

So, for my own piece of mind, I've eliminated the human models from own personal canon. Which opens up the door to modifying the underlying motivations of the remaining Cylons. I've been using the backstory for the Larsen Cylons for RDM's Cylons (created by an alien race and it is believed that they exterminated their creators, since no one has ever seen anything but the Cylons). I do like the Colonials depicted in RDM's version though (except them creating the Cylons, maybe). There are minor things about the Colonials I would change, but nothing that is fundamental like the Cylons.

Too far out?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:40 am 
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I don't think so. It changes some key things, specifically the subplot of the child displacing the parent that was one of the key underpinnings of RDM BSG, as well as the fact that the humans realize that they are facing an enemy of their own creation. Beyond that, it also kinda-sorta violates the "no aliens" rule that RDM and crew laid down for the show.

That said...what it sounds like is an interesting blend of the old and the new. However, I would urge a fair bit of thought into how these changes would impact Colonial society; would their views towards tech be the same? Would they be more ruthless hunting down the Cylons? Would there be an issue of religious conflict over "life" that is non-human and decidedly of a different or no religion? And so on.

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Click the link to read Lady Hecate off line in PDF, .epub, or Kindle formats: http://www.bsg94.org/downloads/index.html
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:14 am 
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All good points kurt, but in my humble opinion one could argue the whole RDM saga was non canon since it was a rehash of TOS if albeit in a completely different format, how many great shows and movies have been done to death over the years, Batman for instance - please enough already.

I’m not saying RDM’s version was bad just non canon as it was not original in essence.

Turbo, I think one can get too bogged down with the whole canon - non canon argument, take mine for instance, “pilgrimage” has a foot in both camps, marrying the old with the new, so I say don’t stress over it too much, there have been so many great series and movies that have morphed into something the creator never intended, even to the point of legal action in Some cases so go with your heart and carry on in your own style I say.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:46 pm 
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Ivan,

I'm going to play a card I rarely play...the contract card. ;-)

RDM is canon because his version was duly licensed and produced in conjunction with both GL and Universal. The comics and books, have a less strong grip to "canon" status because they are one to several degrees of separation from the actual license holders, but they could be counted as "canon lite".

;-)

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Click the link to read Lady Hecate off line in PDF, .epub, or Kindle formats: http://www.bsg94.org/downloads/index.html
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Yeah, the RDM BSG is absolutely canon as far as I'm concerned Ivanho. Same way as the Disney produced Star Wars or the Abrams produced Star Trek are canon.

In regards to your other point though, a good writer should take their audience into account. You all are my audience, since nothing I write would ever be published. So I'm going straight to the audience for opinions about what the audience wants in their BSG fan fiction.

I'll still write my story my way, but maybe it won't be BSG, maybe it will.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:53 am 
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OK I take both your points, however my interpretation of canon is purely personal, for want of a better phrase, the ‘original’ version that came first, the inspiration for all that follow.
You can say want you like about legalities and copyright but to me true canon is the original source and all others reinterpret , notwithstanding your points are both technically correct and cannot be questioned to me it’s about originality and perception.

As for your point on audience, yes absolutely you should take into account your audience but when you get very little feedback that’s difficult as I’ve often bemoaned on this forum!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:57 pm 
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I'm not saying you can't make whatever interpretations you want Ivan, but the word canon actually has a meaning that is pretty solidly against your views.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/canon

Specifically section 3, parts b and c:

b : the authentic works of a writer the Chaucer canon
c : a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works the canon of great literature

So as long as the original author (or their representative in this case) authorizes the work, its canon. It doesn't have to be original to be canon. The word for that is original.

I know you've bemoaned about the lack of feedback, but this is a very very small community, and a lot of us aren't able to be around all the time. I'm still going through all the new stuff I've missed due to school and other commitments.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:26 pm 
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Let’s just agree to disagree, I was only trying to offer some support and an alternative view, I’ll say no more on this.


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